Analyzing the amazing 'Caroline' TV ad

Set aside the obvious impact of the endorsements of Barack Obama by Caroline Kennedy and Sen Ted Kennedy, the daughter and brother of the late President John F Kennedy.  Set aside the Obama endorsement by Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert F Kennedy, who in Nov 2005 called Obama 'our next president' and who said 'he feels it like Bobby felt it.'

Set aside the fact that the above endorsements have helped enormously with legitimizing the presidential qualifications of Barack Obama in the minds of many Democrats over 50.  ( We tend to forget that Obama is still being introduced to the nation even now, a matter of 3 days before Super Mega Extreme Tuesday. )

Set aside Sen Ted Kennedy's booming statements on Monday -- 'He is ready to be president on Day One' and 'From the beginning he opposed the War in Iraq, and let no one deny that truth don't let anyone tell you otherwise !'  -- and set aside the fact that those comments were a direct rebuttal of Hillary Clinton's implication that she's the one who'll be ready on Day One, and Bill Clinton's characterization of Obama's position on the Iraq War as a 'fairy tale.'

Keep reading . . .

Set all that aside, and look at one TV ad, which right now might be overlooked or dismissed.  If Obama does well on Tuesday Feb 5 2008 - either winning more delegates than Hillary or coming close to her - this TV ad, in my estimation, will be analyzed and discussed a long, long time into the 21st century.

The knockout TV ad of the 2008 campaign so far has to be 'Caroline.'  This ad was unveiled only a couple days after Caroline Kennedy, President Kennedy's daughter, endorsed Obama in the New York Times and appeared in person to endorse him along with her uncle, Sen Ted Kennedy and her cousin Rep Patrick Kennedy.

It’s a brilliant ad for a whole lot of reasons; even more so considering the incredibly short turnaround time for this production. ( As a simple citizen posting on a blog, I have no way of knowing, but I doubt that this one was 'in the can' prior to very recently. )

'Caroline' is a 30-second TV ad running in the Feb 5 states and on national cable.  I saw it the first day it came out and it knocked my socks off.  I believe it will grab the attention of just about anyone who sees it, but it is particularly and obviously aimed at every Democrat over the age of 50.   It will make a lot of people sit up and take notice, and stop and think.

Here's my amateur analysis :

The Visuals

(1) President John F Kennedy, walking outdoors with a uniformed member of the military (Marine?), plane in background. Color video clip.

(2) President Kennedy, outdoors, smiling, surrounded by crowds and cameras. Black/white video clip.

(3) Kennedy, spotlighted, speaking at podium in front of a huge crowd.  Black/white photo.

(4) Man walking on moon, placing American flag on lunar surface.  Color video clip.

(5) Barack Obama walking, a huge American flag in the background.  Color video clip.

(6) Obama, outdoors, smiling, surrounded by crowds and cameras.  Color video clip.

(7) Obama, outdoors, up close with people, hand on man’s shoulder.  Color photograph.

(8) Obama, crowd of people swarming towards him, outreached hands.  Color photograph.

(9) Obama, spotlighted, speaking in front of a crowd.  Color photograph (quasi black/white).

(10) Caroline Kennedy looking directly into the camera, speaking. Color video.

(11) caption:  'Caroline Kennedy'

(12) Obama waving, on stage with Rep Patrick Kennedy, Caroline Kennedy, and Sen Ted Kennedy, applauding with crowd in background. Color video clip.

The Words

Caroline Kennedy does voiceover from 0:00 to 0:18, then speaks on camera from 0:18 to 0:28, concluding with Obama’s required voiceover message in the final 2 seconds.

This is what I trancribed to the best of my ability :

Caroline Kennedy voiceover:

"Once, we had a president who made people feel hopeful about America, and brought us together to do great things.

"Today, Barack Obama gives us that same chance.  He makes us believe in ourselves again, that when we act as one nation, we can overcome any challenge."

Caroline Kennedy, speaking on camera:

"People always tell me how  my father inspired them.  I feel that same excitement now.  Barack Obama can lift America and make us one nation again."

Obama:  "I’m Barack Obama, and I approved this message."  Web site and toll-free number.

Now, let's put The Visuals together with The Words

(1-JFK walking)  Once, we had a president who made people
(2-JFK smiling)  feel hopeful about America
(3-JFK speaking)  and brought us together
(4-Man & flag on moon)  to do great things

(5-Obama walking)  Today, Barack Obama
(6-Obama smiling)  gives us that same chance
(7-Obama connecting)  He makes us believe in ourselves again
(8-Obama in crowd)  That when we act
(9-Obama speaking)  as one nation, we can overcome any challenge

(10-Caroline on camera)  People always tell me how
(11-caption: 'Caroline Kennedy')   my father inspired them
I feel that same excitement now
Barack Obama can lift America
And make us one nation again.

(12-Obama & Kennedys on stage)  'I’m Barack Obama, and I approved this message.' Web site and toll-free number.

I see a simple, stunning endorsement from President Kennedy's daughter and brother.  About the only thing missing from the final scene of the Kennedys with Obama on stage were the late president's sisters, Jean and Eunice (who were backstage at that event) and Ethel Kennedy, the widow of Robert F Kennedy who called Obama 'our next president' in 2005 and said 'he feels it like Bobby felt it.'

On TV, the visuals are subtly powerful :

Outdoors.
Sunshine.
Walking.
Airplane.
Smiling.
Crowds.
Hands.
Spotlights.
Astronaut.
Moon.
American flag.
The Kennedys:  President John F Kennedy, Caroline Kennedy, Rep Patrick Kennedy, Sen Ted Kennedy.

Caroline's relaxed, calm on-screen appearance is contrasted by the powerful endorsement of the late President's daughter who never endorses (except Ted in 1980) and who simply says Obama has qualities that her father had.

And in the first half of the ad, we see these intentional juxtapositions:

President Kennedy, with that famous stride // Sen Obama with his stride.

Pres Kennedy smiling // Obama smiling

Kennedy surrounded by crowds & cameras // Obama surrounded by crowds and cameras

Kennedy in the spotlight // Obama in the  spotlight

Man walking on the moon with flag // Obama walking with flag in background

Updated to add :  Keywords from the text include once, president, people, hopeful, America, us, together, great things, today, believe, ourselves, we, act, nation, overcome, challenge, my father, inspired, excitement, lift, America, one, again.  

Take the time to watch it and analyze it yourself.  

If Obama manages to do well on Tuesday and beyond, this TV ad could go down as being one of the most memorable in American political history.  

Sources:

+ The 'Caroline' TV ad

+ Caroline Kennedy's endorsement of Obama in the NYT, 'A President Like My Father'

+ Transcript of the Mon Jan 28 Obama/Kennedy rally with Ted Kennedy's endorsement speech

+ Ethel Kennedy's Nov 2005 comments

•  Tips for Obama

  and Caroline and Ted and Ethel and Eunice and Jean !

  What an excellent adventure it's been so far . . .

  by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:41:42 PM PDT

  •  Link to the ad

    In case you want to update your diary:

    http://youtube.com/...

    by Bailey on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:44:29 PM PDT

    •  Sigh.

      Okay, never mind, I didn't even see your link at the end of your post.  

      Nothing to see here.

      Sure wish we could edit.

      by Bailey on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:45:27 PM PDT

  •  I agree it sounds effective

    and could have an enormous impact on older voters, such as my generation. It evokes the feelings I had on November 9, 1960, walking across wind-swept South Shore Park to school and feeling like the world was being born anew, of sending for the official inauguration program (which I happened on shortly before Christmas when looking for something else) and vowing that when I grew older, I would have a horse and name him "Inaugural Happiness." (I did indeed write a short story with a horse named that but I never did own a horse myself.)

    Anyway, I already opted for Obama about 30 seconds after I heard Edwards had dropped out, so it must have been in my mind already. And virtually every Edwards supporter I've talked to since (and I am finding out there are dozens of them among my acquaintances I didn't even know -- had he been given even remotely comparable media coverage, he'd still be in the race -- and leading) is doing the same.  I know a lot of Hillary folks, mostly among middle-aged professional women, but they have been there all along and are very loyal.

    I think Kos is wrong to parse policy points and claim that "HIllary won" the debate; in fact, I agree with whoever it was that said that DEMOCRATS were the winner. I think people are moving now on a sense of possibility, not on policy points, as those will be hammered out over the long haul (hopefully in cooperation with congress) after the election. The president needs to set priorities, and I think this is what people are taking away from Obama now.

    by anastasia p on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:55:16 PM PDT

  •  I'm in Milwaukee, and the ad I really like

    and am seeing several times now -- haven't seen this one of Caroline Kennedy at all here, though -- is another one.  It starts with heartwrenching video and audio of Bobby Kennedy, on his campaign 40 years ago this year.

    Then it switches to a wonderful young man talking.  It's Cesar Chavez's son or grandson (I couldn't quite catch that yet) endorsing Clinton (as have most of the Chavezes, the UFW, etc.).  This is another young man to watch; he is almost spellbinding in such a quiet way.

    All this tells us, of course, that Wisconsin's primary will matter, after all, in little more than two weeks now.

    by Cream City on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:10:33 PM PDT

•  Very nice ad deconstruct

  I hadn't heard about this ad, thanks for putting together all the details.

  by pseudopod on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:45:12 PM PDT

  •  Thanks

    I read some comments here  earlier this week that were 'ho-hum' about the advt and thought it was plain and put together hastily.

    Thinking about it, I felt it deserved more attention and obviously I disagree that it was  thrown together without much thought.

    by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:00:07 PM PDT

•  your right i took notice of it immediately

  it is a knock out ad for those of us who remember JFK.

  by Tanya on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:45:21 PM PDT

•  Excellent analysis of an excellent ad. n/t

  by Marie on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:50:34 PM PDT

•  Hi, RobertInWisconsin!

  Good diary.  This is a remarkable ad.  I was thinking to myself that Caroline must really believe in Barack Obama and this campaign.  She is wonderfully brave, because she is so very, very, very shy and zealously protects her family and her privacy.

  Also, you can update Ethel Kennedy's remarks - she evidently has endorsed Barack Obama today!

  by Sagittarius on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:55:45 PM PDT

•  I wasn't particularly moved by the ad

  but I wasn't the target audience.

  I called an older friend who (unlike me) was around for JFK's presidency and assassination, and asked her what she thought.

  The ad made her cry.

  by Sinister Rae on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:56:58 PM PDT

  •  Bingo

    to your friend's reaction.

    by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 12:58:50 PM PDT

  •  yep

    I didnt cry but I was taken back those times, when i was a little girl and life felt kinder then for me. I agree--the impact of this ad for me was the idea that she is very private and to come out and speak nationally speaks great volumes to me.

    by fireflynw on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:59:26 PM PDT

  •  I am the target audience..

    saw the ad...very effective but I'm immune to political propaganda.  Most people are not analytical, as you and I are, about the ads they see or the mailings they get...so if Obama wins the nomination, you may well be right that this ad will go down in history.

    But then, I wonder if it would be used in the general election...The only person who draws more fire from the Republicans than 'the Clintons" is Teddy Kennedy.  He is solid gold to the Rs for fundraising and GOTV and they have tied him to every Democratic campaign in any way they could...successful with Kerry, not with Bill Clinton or Jimmy Carter.  Obama makes it easy for them...Teddy is his patron now...'the fixer.'

    Should be a fascinating couple of months for political junkies.  Coming right up!

    by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:31:12 PM PDT

    •  But the ad is not so much Teddy as JFK - I think

      it is harder to slam him (though he was not a tin saint by any means).

      by Wee Mama on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:20:46 PM PDT

      •  Right. I was separating the two things..

        ...the Kennedy ad...and Ted Kennedy.  THAT is the 'Kennedy name' the Rs will tie Obama to...and easily (ad or no ad..the ad is just for Democrats in the primary).

        by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 06:18:12 PM PDT

•  Only proves "Fairy Tale" was correct

  Sorry, I loved Caroline and little John-John as much as anyone else, but that was a long time ago, Kennedy was a terrible womanizer, he had ties to the Chicago mob, and he almost got us all killed in his testosterone-fueled show-down with the USSR.  

  My family cried for three days straight when he died, but folks "Camelot" WAS a fairy tale.  And it's time to move on and deal with REAL issues that confront us now in 2008.    

  The Caroline endorsement is based on a silly alignment of the planets:  

  http://www.newsweek.com/...

  I have a question for the star-struck among you.  Just answer this:

  After 40 years and with several nieces, nephews, children and grandchildren who have devoted their lives to public service, does dear old Uncle (Ted) ignore all of them and pass the "sacred torch" to some upstart from Chicago?   You have to wonder.  

  Hm ... Chicago.  

  by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:05:41 PM PDT

  •  Good luck with

    trashing the memory of President Kennedy. I'm sure it'll play well among the Democratic base. LOL

    As I recall, the way he handled the showdown with the USSR has been widely praised by historians.

    The fact is, nuclear war was averted. If Goldwater or LBJ or Truman had been prez at that point in history I wonder if there would have been a different outcome.

    by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:08:52 PM PDT

    •  Do you know what ended Cuban Missile Crisis?

      It was Kennedy, not Krushchev, who backed down.  He agreed to remove nukes from eastern europe in exchange for K's concession on Cuba ... which had been K's plan all along.  

      U.S. press didn't make much of this, to the extent it reported it at all.    But you see, Kennedy could've made that concession BEFORE bringing us to the brink of nuclear war, but no he took us to the brink instead.  

      I'm amazed that the "memory of Kennedy" is so iconic among today's youth.  It's kind of cool of course, but I have to wonder what it is based on.   Kennedy's administration has been deconstructed to death and most informed folks see it in a realistic light.  

      It's not "trashing" someone to tell the truth.    Agreed?

      by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:20:08 PM PDT

      •  A young prez stood up to Kruschev

        and got those missiles out of Cuba, a few dozen miles off the American coast !

        Nuclear war was avoided - you think it's possible that if Goldwater, Nixon, LBJ or Truman had been prez that there could've been a differnet outcome ?

        My main point stands - the advt is aimed squarely at Dems over 50, and I think it resonates powerfully with  them.

        I know people who have served in the Peace Corps because of JFK, who found him incredibly inspiring.

        JFK got us to the moon in less than a decade when people  thought it was impossible.

        I  remember the 1992 Dem convention in NYC. When they showed that photo on the big screen of a young Bill Clinton shaking hands with Pres Kennedy, the place went berserk.

        That is the context of my analysis of this advt and its obvious audience of Dems who remember JFK.

        by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:26:48 PM PDT

        •  Wow you have an amazing ability

          to ignore facts.  Let me repeat:

          Krushchev sent the missiles to Cuba precisely with the intent of getting our nukes out of eastern europe.  And, it worked!

          So Krushchev got his way and we lost our nukes in eastern europe.   How can you interpret that as "young prez" standing up to Krushchev?  

          Check it in any information source you like.    It is fact.   You can assert that your point stands, but that doesn't make it so.

          Peace Corps?  Yes, that is a fabulous program and I'd love to see more people doing it and more programs like it.

          Going to the moon?   Expensive publicity stunt intended to show we can kick sand in the face of Igor over there in the USSR.   Nothing more.   The last moon shot was, what, 1970?  Not exactly a lasting legacy or impact on our lives.

          by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:34:19 PM PDT

          •  Oh never mind, really

            The moonshot was  just a publicity stunt that did no good for anybody ?  You must be kidding.

            Anyway, I think you are totally missing the point of my diary.  Maybe re-read the first few paragraphs.  This is about a powerful group of endorsements that matter to a helluva a lot of Democrats, particularly those  who remember.

            It's not a historical analysis of the advantages and  disadvantages of President Kennedy's decisions nearly a half-century ago.

            Besides, I could find a ton of analysts by historians who come to dramatically different conclusions than you do.

            by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:41:27 PM PDT

            •  Then send 'em along ...

              by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:43:08 PM PDT

              •  Nope, not gonna co-hijack my own diary

                thankyouverymuch.

                You seem to be missing completely the point of my diary. You have a right to comment way off-topic, but you are coming across as argumentative, negative, and dismissive to the point of overkill.

                I don't know you, but you seem perfectly capable of doing independent research and finding respected historians whose viewpoints on key events in Kennedy's presidency are dramatically different from your own.  I encourage you to do some digging on your  own.

                by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:54:12 PM PDT

                •  You're debating the myth

                  vs. the reality.

                  The Kennedy myth is very, very powerful stuff, and I think you're right this ad does a good job of recreating it and should help pull Dems into the Obama camp.

                  The reality of the Kennedy administration, as mrojers2007 correctly points out, was very different from the myth.

                  On the particular point of the Cuban missile crisis, most historians do in fact attribute substantial blame for the crisis to Kennedy himself -- Graham Allison documented nearly forty years ago in Essence of Decision how Kennedy's campaign slogan of a "missile gap" between the US and the USSR contributed to the Soviet decision to place missiles in Cuba.  In fact, the US had a substantial strategic advantage in missiles and bombers over the Soviets in 1960, and the Soviets were intensely worried about US medium range missiles in Turkey.  Those missiles were in fact removed as part of the deal that ended the Cuban missile crisis.

                  Kennedy was a decent president, but also intensely flawed.  As we elect Obama president, we should keep that reality in mind.

                  by litho on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:03:47 PM PDT

                  •  Every dang president has had major flaws

                    It's called being human.  LOL!

                    This diary is about the 'Caroline' TV advt, although I felt that was fairly clear to anyone who read it.

                    An in-depth historical analysis and debate about the merits of the events and decisions of JFK's presidency, it is not !  LOL

                    by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:10:38 PM PDT

                    •  Well, Robert...you invited these

                      comments by suggesting that the ad will sell we 'older Democrats' on Obama because of the Kennedy connection.  Now we're telling you that we lived throught it all...we know the difference between myth and reality...and you don't want to hear it...don't want to know what we think.

                      Don't be upset by this...in this case it is no hijack.  And the ad may well work, for most folks, as you pointed out with the Clinton '92 convention photo and the Dem crowd's response to it.  You are right about its iconic propaganda value...

                      by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:04:46 PM PDT

          •  As someone back on the fence

            I have a bit of advice for the HC camp. The time you guys are spending attacking everyone and everything that endorses Obama, instead of giving me reason to vote for your candidate, is not helping HC.

            I don't get how you believe this is a constructive move for your candidate. Seriously, it is making you all look like you are on the defensive--and it is an ugliness that, for me, is making Obama more appealing.

            by SeattleLiberal on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:28:47 PM PDT

            •  Try to focus on the issues and not

              on how any blogger or surrogate behaves...or doesn't!

              The candidates can't be responsible for each and every one of us...good gravy...some of us are NUTS!

              But I do think it is important to talk about the candidates, the issues and the propaganda being used to sell each of them to us in this primary, don't you?

              Of course, there is fair comment and unfair comment...good analysis and crap...thoughtful examination and name-calling.  It's politics!  A careful voter tries to separate the wheat from the chaff...it's not easy, tho...I'll give you that!

              by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:09:32 PM PDT

              •  My point

                is not that I will make my decision based on the actions of anyone but the candidate (I won't and will gladly support the nominee--whoever that is), but that actions like this do not help their cause. At all.

                by SeattleLiberal on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:52:52 PM PDT

          •  Actually, the Peace Corps was

            by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:38:26 PM PDT

          •  Of course, you're correct about the facts...

            although the Peace Corps was the baby of Kennedy in-law, Sargent Shriver...the Kennedys got the credit.

            The moon shot stands as an American acievement beyond your interpretation of it, I think.  The cold war terrified many Americans re nuclear war and the success of the moon shot after the Sputnik scare was psychological...restored American's belief in their "we're number one!! can-do spirit"...not all to the good.  Segue into Vietnam and now Iraq.  Rather than regaining our confidence from it, we became arrogant with the fall of the Berlin wall and the collapse of the USSR.

            There is much to worry about still.  Ted Kennedy's attempt, by co-opting Obama, to rehabilitate the Kennedy reputation and legacy -- which HE has damaged since the sad deaths of his more-accomplished brothers -- may or may not succeed...but it is painful to watch for this 71-year old Democratic activist who lived through it all.

            by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:57:07 PM PDT

  •  Uh.....

    Ted Kennedy has been very supportive to all of his family, however, none of them has actively sought, or made it to the point Obama has.  None has run for president.  He actively campaigns for his family members.

    You clearly don't know about the Kennedy's or Obama to even make a reasonable comment.  Idiot.

    by lrhoke on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:10:17 PM PDT

    •  I think the commenter may not like it

      and that's okay by me.  But, that still doesn't change the fact that this TV advt has gotten, and will get, major attention from tons of Democrats over the age of 50 and will make them stop & think.

      by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:15:37 PM PDT

    •  Yes. He has. It's a bit more complicated

      than that, though.  (Read up on Sargent Schriver -- the Kennedy in-law who ran for vice president --some time).

      Dunno if you were around for the last Kennedy run for president...when Teddy crashed and burned in one of the most embarrassing campaigns ever.  Ever.  Older Democrats remember JFK and Bobby...but we remember Teddy too...and what his campaign did to President Jimmy Carter.

      One more thing that is relevant to your comment that

      None has run for president

       That's right.  And neither did Obama just 'up and decide to run for president and raise over $100M.'  He was drafted by the anti-Clintons in the Democratic establishment of which Ted Kennedy is a charter member.  

      So far, so good.

      by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:20:07 PM PDT

      •  Schriver was a great patriot

        It's odd that people don't remember what he did with the Peace Corps.

        by Valhalla on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 07:16:40 PM PDT

        •  Yes. He was sidelined and marginalized

          by the Kennedys and JFK got the credit for his programs.

          He was a talented and formidable person whose gifts were not fully realized...partly because, married to a Kennedy daughter, he was overshadowed by them after JFK was shot.

          Maria Shriver, like her cousins the children of RFK, are not so caught up in defending and perpetuating the myth and the magic of 'Kennedyism.'  If she were, she wouldn't have married Arnold.

          by oldpro on Sun Feb 03, 2008 at 12:50:39 AM PDT

  •  Camelot wasn't about Kennedy himself

    It was about what he inspired his countrymen to do and the programs his administration supported.  It was about progressive leadership, not human perfection.  

    by justrock on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:18:41 PM PDT

    •  Exactly!!

      by fireflynw on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:05:45 PM PDT

•  I was very young in the '60s

  ...just five years old when JFK was inaugurated (I do remember seeing it on TV, actually) and was only 14 at the time of the moon landing. But this ad did affect me strongly.

  by slksfca on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:11:05 PM PDT

•  NOT a negative word in the AD

  YEAH!!!!!!!!!!!!

  by B P Pgh on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:14:53 PM PDT

•  Robert, your analysis of the ad is terrific.

  And definitely, this ad stirs the memories of me (a 61 year-old) and will affect my friends who look so fondly back to the early sixties and thought Camelot was real.

  by paige on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:15:25 PM PDT

  •  "Who thought Camelot was real ..."

    you mean, instead of the Fairy Tale it actually was.  

    by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:22:10 PM PDT

    •  I'd love to hear Bill Clinton dismiss JFK

      as a 'fairy tale.'  Let me know when that shows up on You Tube.  ROFLMAO

      by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:28:11 PM PDT

      •  Yeah, quite true

        I guess JFK is the new Harry Truman.  The Democrats' answer to Ronnie Reagan.

        And that's fine, if you want to use him as some kind of empty symbol.  Clinton definitely did.  And if it gets you votes, well some folks think that all's fair in love, war, and politics.

        But if you are using an empty symbol -- or worse, falling for an empty symbol --- well then at least have enough introspective mojo to understand that is what you are doing.

        by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:37:59 PM PDT

        •  Empty Symbol?

          JFK saved this country from a potential nuclear war!  He is not a symbol, he was an amazing leader.

          by Valhalla on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:50:24 PM PDT

          •  Jeez don't you Obama supporters know anything

            about history?    It was Kennedy, not Krushchev, who backed down.   Krushchev sent the missiles to Cuba with one goal in mind:   To force Kennedy to remove nukes from Eastern Europe.

            After much histrionics and playing of the "chicken" game, Kennedy -- not Kruschev! -- backed down.    Kennedy agreed to remove the nukes from Europe and Krushchev thus got exactly what he had wanted.

            Kennedy could've made that concession BEFORE bringing us to the brink of nuclear war, but no he took us to the brink instead.  

            by mrogers2007 on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:05:13 PM PDT

            •  "You Obama Supporters.."

              ah hah...it is clear now...

              by fireflynw on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:07:17 PM PDT

              •  Exactly - no further comment is necessary really

                that much is clear.

                by RobertInWisconsin on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:12:00 PM PDT

            •  I'm an Edwards supporter!

              Who is barely leaning towards Obama and still thinking about voting JRE anyway on Tuesday.

              I wrote a fucking paper on the missile crisis so I don't need to be schooled by you.  It was a complicated game and not as facile as your making it out to be.  Kennedy was under tremendous pressure at home to look strong and to attack immediately.  He had to deal with our own crazies at home as well the Russians. Most historians give JFK very good marks for his judgment.

              by Valhalla on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:05:49 PM PDT

              •  And do you agree that it was Bobby Kennedy who

                actually saved the day by suggesting that the JFK respond to the first Kruschev communication rather than the second one?

                by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:29:38 PM PDT

                •  JFK gave Bobby credit

                  for his incredible counsel, so I will too!  They were an amazing team.  But JFK gets the points for bringing Bobby on board in the first place.

                  by Valhalla on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:07:33 PM PDT

                  •  And for listening to him.

                    Of course, you can still have a relative (or spouse) as a confidant and private counselor (as both Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter did with their wives)...BUT you can't appoint them to office as JFK appointed RFK.  The congress has since passed a law to prevent it.

                    by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 04:19:08 PM PDT

      •  He would never do that...Bill Clinton

        bought the myth of the Kennedy magic as much as anyone ever did!

        Look at that photo of the young Bill Clinton at the White House shaking President Kennedy's hand...

        by oldpro on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 03:26:27 PM PDT

    •  Yeah, I think a few of my friends just remember

      the "glamour" of JFK and Jackie - "at last, a "royal," perfect couple. We certainly didn't hear the gossip about MM and the mob then . . .

      It's funny how we feel about icons and just who we select as icons.

      by paige on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 02:57:12 PM PDT

•  Astute Analysis

  I like the way you broke things down.  Very good analysis.

  Kennedy has a special place in American History -- he was incredible in his short time but did not have the opportunity to create a lasting transformation because of that horrible day in November.  I don't know if Obama (or Clinton) can effect that transformation, but we desperately need a new way of governing America.  Even though Obama is not my original first choice, I would be beyond thrilled if he does become president and repairs the terrible damage inflicted by George Bush and the Neocons.

  by Valhalla on Sat Feb 02, 2008 at 01:47:55 PM PDT